Naval
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Naval
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SATS
87 days ago
87 days ago•••
The Regime lapdogs that refer to themselves as journalists are some of the most repulsive people living on this planet. https://m.primal.net/KTuO.mov
132 days ago•••
Long term, we need private money or it just gets traced / taxed / seized by the state anyway.
But truly private money makes for a bad store of value. You can’t audit the ledger, so a bug could create unlimited inflation that would be hard to detect.
So privacy is how you move money, not necessarily store it.
110 days ago
130 days ago•••
privacy and auditing on L1
Using zk-SNARKs, miners can issue new bitcoins to addresses controlled by users who burnt their coins while ensuring privacy and auditability. This method leverages advanced cryptographic techniques to achieve the desired outcome without compromising the integrity or transparency of the Bitcoin network. However, the implementation would require substantial changes to the protocol and broad community support.
1. Burning Transaction:
- Alice wants to burn 1 BTC. She sends 1 BTC to a known burner address and generates a zk-SNARK proof, which she submits along with the transaction.
- This proof shows that she owned 1 BTC, sent it to the burner address, and provides a new address (e.g., NewAliceAddress) controlled by her.
2. Proof Submission:
- Alice submits the transaction and proof to the Bitcoin network. Miners collect this proof and transaction data.
3. Verification:
- Miners use zk-SNARK verification algorithms to check the proof. This ensures that the conditions (ownership, burning, and new address) are met without revealing any unnecessary information.
4. New Coin Creation:
- Upon successful verification, miners include a special transaction in a new block that creates 1 BTC and sends it to NewAliceAddress.
- The issuance of new coins is now recorded on the blockchain, maintaining transparency and auditability.
Privacy and Security Considerations
- Privacy: The use of zk-SNARKs ensures that the details of the original burnt bitcoins and the new addresses are not linked publicly, preserving user privacy.
- Security: zk-SNARKs provide strong cryptographic guarantees that the proofs are valid without revealing sensitive information.
- Auditability: The blockchain records the issuance of new bitcoins transparently, allowing anyone to verify the total supply of bitcoins and ensure no double issuance.
Challenges and Implementation
- Complexity: Implementing zk-SNARKs into Bitcoin's protocol is non-trivial and requires significant changes and testing.
- Consensus: Achieving consensus for such a change would be challenging and require broad agreement within the Bitcoin community.
- Performance: zk-SNARKs involve computational overhead, which might impact the performance and scalability of the Bitcoin network.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
I agree with Naval's take. And this is a thesis I've been investing with for some time.
In the long run, privacy is super important for working capital. Sending and receiving with high velocity, privately.
But then once you gain a significant surplus, you want to be able to pull that capital onto a supply-auditable base layer for longer-term savings. The supply-auditable base layer isn't as private, but since it is pseudonymous it inherits some of the privacy from the fact that you've pulled it down to that layer from private working capital.
There are different trade-offs for spending wallets and savings wallets, when it comes to privacy, security, etc.
Wallets that use the open-source Cashu protocol are great for private working capital. And Nostr has been great at integrating them recently.
132 days ago•••
Long term, we need private money or it just gets traced / taxed / seized by the state anyway.
But truly private money makes for a bad store of value. You can’t audit the ledger, so a bug could create unlimited inflation that would be hard to detect.
So privacy is how you move money, not necessarily store it.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Exactly!
132 days ago•••
this is why zcash never made sense, best to move privacy tech to L2s. Lightning is ok at this, not perfect, but decent.
132 days ago•••
Wonder if you create a privacy chain from the ground up that would automatically self-audit. Use ZK to count up all the balances without revealing them outside of the sum total.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Use ZK to count up all the balances without revealing them outside of the sum total
that's how UTXOs already work in privacy coins: pedersen commitments + bulletproofs are used to self-audit every balance without revealing them outside of the sum total https://www.moneroinflation.com/amounts_confidential_tx
132 days ago•••
Shitcoins are not the answer
132 days ago•••
Discounting everything that falls outside your narrowly defined boundaries without even studying & understanding why people far smarter than either of us bothered creating the 'shitcoin' is not the answer.
132 days ago•••
I am technical, and I spent plenty of time looking into 2015-17 era “alt”-coins. They’re all junk, and these days the sales pitches and promises are 100x lazier than in those days.
I am not an expert in every “Bitcoin 2.0” but I have looked at enough of them in detail to have an opinion. Their only value is in the casino
132 days ago•••
zcash would be better off as a shielded sidechain from the start since if they kept their dev-tax they would be paid in sats as fee
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
check out e-cash (cashu and fedmint)
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Check https://www.moneroinflation.com for a possible rebuttal to the argument that the ledger cannot be audited because it's not transparent.
132 days ago•••
This is where Bitcoin layers come in. The foundation is perfectly auditable (decent and improving privacy), while layers built on top make trade-offs for privacy/speed/cost.
132 days ago•••
If you can transfer from a bitcoin address to a new one, completely privately, and split the transaction across time and amount, that would work.
Are there any such working implementations?
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
If you care so much about privacy you can just mine bitcoin. That's 100% anonymous
132 days ago•••
but this doesn't solve the problem of sending or receiving funds.
132 days ago•••
bitcoin mixers
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
💯 this is basically the case for chaumian ecash on top of bitcoin
132 days ago•••
This is also why zec needs unshielded txs. How do you do price discovery if you can't see what other people are trading it for?
132 days ago•••
Dash had a nice balance with built in mixers, you could just push a button in the wallet and get an endless stream of mixing txs. Of course it's not as private as zec, but it was information theoretically sound if you didn't accidentally recombine your utxos after mixing.
132 days ago•••
Maybe drivechain thing could help here.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
“The quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true.”
— Galadriel, Lord of the Rings
132 days ago•••
Programmable money (ETH, etc) is hard to scale. So people build Layer 2s.
But these Layer 2s are barely decentralized. And now there’s a crop of L2s that are really just multisigs.
But wouldn’t a sufficiently large group of multisigs be somewhat decentralized? Like a digital Hawala network?
Especially for transactions (but not for smart contracts where money is locked up).
132 days ago•••
ETH is an obvious scam and should not even be in the discussion.
132 days ago•••
If Nostr is going to succeed, you can’t police what’s going to be discussed.
132 days ago•••
I'm not policing anything. You're a pleb here just like the rest of us; construct better arguments. Welcome to a meritocracy.
132 days ago•••
Happy to be in a meritocracy. Since you’re into name calling, muting you.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Pleb is a term of endearment.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Pleb is a nickname here. It is not insulting at all.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Mate, being called a pleb is not a bad thing. We all plebs on here. Nobody is above anyone else. Mind you we are happy that people with a history of good open thinking like yourself with a bit of social clout are spreading the good word of nostr on the bird app.
132 days ago•••
&>/dev/null
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Nostr will succeed. Anything can be discussed. Anything can be built. That's the true power of decentralization and open protocols.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
But comunicate across different multisigs is less efficient than communicate on the L1 network, so is:
- few centralized L2s, not too much net-effect lost, less fees and less data on L1 ---> centralized scaling solution.
- a lot of decentralized L2s, net-effect lost, need to back to L1 to regain net-effect ----> decentralized, but not a scaling solution.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Check out the fedimint protocol
This is the idea
The main app right now is Fedi
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Personally, I'm a fan of Fedimint. Multisigs across a group of people & businesses is a scaling solution I can get behind.
Sure, it technically increases the chances of getting rugged, but the probabilities are minuscule, if structured properly.
Every advantage has a disadvantage. With Fedis, there are risks, but with it comes other advantages, such as privacy and scalability.
The beauty of a decentralized protocol, is that everyone is free to adopt it, in any which way they please.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
tbh arbitrum's model seems to be ok to some extent. obviously wouldn't touch it with tens-of-thousands of dollars-equivalent, but with something bearable, the speed and cheapness is a good trade
132 days ago•••
How would you know if the musig isn't all the same person? In btc now there is fedimint where it's custodial musltisig and the purpose is to build trust based communities of this federations, if you are going to have to always put trust better be with people you already know and trust.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
using nostr keys (ideally with a keychain and rotation system, which is under heavy discussion recently) would make this kind of verification a lot easier
or even if just for the signatories to use their nost identities to sign events containing the keys they will use, and the relevant UTXO that will be spent
132 days ago•••
Fair point. Sybil multisigs. Ideally there’d be an on-chain reputation system with longevity and successful transaction history. But that starts getting fairly complex.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
What you’re trying to envision is what the spiderchain is doing. Botanix Labs is building this. Eg decentralized multisigs where >10.000 nodes can participate in.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Yes. For txs lightning, self custody or not, is probably still the best option, there is also Liquid and Ark is being developed, so there will be many options and all connected by lightning. Each person can choose the best option, in many countries using something centralized like Strike or cash app for lightning is probably fine, in countries were people can't access these serviced they can use other options, Liquid, Fedimint or a wallet like Phoenix or Zeus as an example.
132 days ago•••
and Hedgehog! @npub1r4j...l5p9 is working on that one
132 days ago•••
Yeah also that, want to see it in action. Too technical for me. Lol
132 days ago•••
disagree. build it on a zero trust network.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
This is the general concept of the Fedimint project. It works in production today, but very little adoption… most likely because it doesn’t have a native shitcoin for VC wealth extraction.
132 days ago•••
I believe you can execute any arbitrary code/logic within a Fedimint “smart contract”
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
I like the spiderchain thing from https://www.botanixlabs.xyz
132 days ago•••
So many Bitcoin L2s.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
It's because none of them are easy enough for the masses to use just yet and everyone is trying to solve this problem. We'll get there soon enough, when the fire of adoption ignites a wave of developmental urgency.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Spiderchain thing is a new concept that use many multisigs. It's an interesting project.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
Federations are good enough until they aren't.
I struggle to think of any federations that have failed thus far, so we haven't enough data.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
I think the Fedimint protocol on BTC can achieve this.
132 days ago•••
Stop the shitcoining!
132 days ago•••
Muted.
132 days ago•••
This isn’t twitter 😂
132 days ago•••
Scams (like ETH) actually scale better because they are centralized (read controlled).
Actual decentralization takes time and grass roots growth.
133 days ago•••
Nostr should not be the "back up" for when X is censored, wtf. It should be the main thing people use.
133 days ago•••
Nostr serves as the credible backup plan for when governments seize or ban X.
132 days ago•••
Should be but people won’t switch until they’re forced to. And the primary “feature” on these platforms is the userbase.
So it’s more about being ready than demanding that people switch now.
132 days ago
132 days ago•••
💯
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
It's also not simply "social media." Nostr being on his radar is cool nonetheless.
132 days ago•••
"Should" <-- what does this word mean? Are you raging against reality?
132 days ago•••
foolishness. the average person wants entertainment not integrity.
132 days ago•••
X is owned by one of the richest tax eaters of history
#nostronly
133 days ago•••
Nostr should not be the "back up" for when X is censored, wtf. It should be the main thing people use.
133 days ago•••
Nostr serves as the credible backup plan for when governments seize or ban X.
133 days ago•••
Nostr serves as the credible backup plan for when governments seize or ban X.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
This is very true , we just had an attempt to murder a high profle figure..... things are happening and we need to be ready and are ready with the beauty of nostr . most will be left behind and thaats on them you get it or you dont . conspiracy theories seem as tho they are only 3 months out... as before they were years and years out....
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
if this pic doesn't move you, you have no soul
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
Trump’s almost assassination: a deranged shooter
Biden’s almost assassination: a flight of stairs
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
THEY TRIED TO KILL OUR FUCKING PRESIDENT.
133 days ago•••
🚨BREAKING NEWS🚨
Shots fired at Donald Trump rally in Pennsylvania
Donald Trump ducked at a rally as shots appeared to be fired at the former president.
133 days ago•••
This Trump assasination attempt looks staged. If so, I saw this happen once before before an election in Taiwan. It is known as the 319 "attempted assasination" event that got the then current corrupt president, Chen Shui-bian, who was losing in the polls, re-elected.
The official story was that Chen was grazed by a bullet from a homemade gun. Many people, including myself, believe it to have been a staged assasination attempt designed to get him reelected. It worked. He was later convicted on corruption charges and served time.
Watching this video, I have many questions.
Who gets shots fired at them and stops to poke their head out and pump a fist at the crowd? What EP agents would allow a mark to do that? Why didn't the crowd behind him drop to the ground or try to run?
Looking forward to finding out more details as they are released.
133 days ago•••
🚨BREAKING NEWS🚨
Shots fired at Donald Trump rally in Pennsylvania
Donald Trump ducked at a rally as shots appeared to be fired at the former president.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
So the guy who had an overwhelming lead in the polls & who had already been attacked by the media for the entire time he was in office, & more than once via a weaponized "justice" system, would fake being shot at, & kill a crowd member in the process... To further bolster his lead? Come on... really?
To believe that you'd probably have to be crazy enough to think a man could become a woman 🙄
133 days ago•••
This Trump assasination attempt looks staged. If so, I saw this happen once before before an election in Taiwan. It is known as the 319 "attempted assasination" event that got the then current corrupt president, Chen Shui-bian, who was losing in the polls, re-elected.
The official story was that Chen was grazed by a bullet from a homemade gun. Many people, including myself, believe it to have been a staged assasination attempt designed to get him reelected. It worked. He was later convicted on corruption charges and served time.
Watching this video, I have many questions.
Who gets shots fired at them and stops to poke their head out and pump a fist at the crowd? What EP agents would allow a mark to do that? Why didn't the crowd behind him drop to the ground or try to run?
Looking forward to finding out more details as they are released.
133 days ago•••
🚨BREAKING NEWS🚨
Shots fired at Donald Trump rally in Pennsylvania
Donald Trump ducked at a rally as shots appeared to be fired at the former president.
133 days ago•••
It was really important to murder some innocent people in the audience because they knew it would make it more believable 🙄🤦🏻‍♂️
133 days ago•••
More information is coming available now. I wrote this post as the first video was breaking, saying I was looking forward to more details as they become available. Follow the timeline friend.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
My immediate thoughts on the Trump assassination attempt: • It’s not uncommon for assassination attempts and terrorist attacks by intelligence agencies to fail because they often nurture literal insane people to do their dirty work for them. • The idea that this is PR or staged is an enormous stretch, imo. He seemed to have actually gotten hit in the ear. The idea that he let someone shoot him in the ear, or he cut himself or faked it to get attention — when he is not having ANY problem at all getting all the attention he wants — is a little much for me.
133 days ago•••
I'll keep every possibility on the table for now. There's no need to make up my mind on what I think happened, right away.
133 days ago•••
Not everything is a conspiracy. This one doesn't really even begin to cross into that territory for me.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
Form follows philosophy.
The values are reflected in the product.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
The main purpose of Nostr right now is to serve as a backup. But as it grows, it will shift to removing rent-seeking monopolies.
Since it will break digital copyright laws, rent-seeking monopolies will have to shrink over time.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
If people didn’t believe in the spiritual battle before it’s almost undeniable now.
132 days ago
133 days ago•••
God bless the United States of America.
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